"It’s a Dance. You Learn to be Nimble." Five Questions with Yi-Ling Liu about Navigating the Chinese Internet

In this extended Q&A from The Fifth Draft—the National Fellows Program newsletter—Yi-Ling Liu (2021 ASU Future Security Fellow) answers five questions about her upcoming book on the online “wall dancers” in China pushing for change and internet freedom from within the boundaries of its nationwide firewall. Sign up for The Fifth Draft to hear how the world's best storytellers find ideas that change the world.

Your Fellows project will be a book about wall dancers, individuals in China who are navigating the boundaries of the Chinese internet. What drew you to writing about this subject?

Most narratives I read about China are reductive and simplistic. They fail to capture the society that I live in in all its complexity. Chinese cyberspace—rich with innovation, and yet constrained by a unique form of repressive governance—can feel like a free-wheeling carnival and a barren cage all at once. In this context, I found myself gravitating to the individuals who embodied these contradictions, those who worked within the system all while challenging its boundaries—a process often described as “dancing with shackles on.”

I came to call them “wall dancers,” individuals in China who are pushing for change, openness, and freedom from inside the Great Firewall. Who are they, what do they believe in, and how has the internet both liberated and constrained the people that they’ve become?

You have a column in Rest of World where you write about how the internet reshapes the lives of regular people in China, most recently covering food delivery drivers. How do you choose your subjects, is there a thread of connection between them?

In the Rest of World column, I steer away from big-picture geopolitics and focus on human-centred narratives, observed at the ground level. This does not mean that my subjects are niche or marginal, but that they always have deep and rippling effects on the lives of everyday people.

In general, I take a specific incident that captures the pulse of the moment—say, a protest by Meituan food delivery workers, or the rising popularity of a new online psychology app—then weave the story together with a bigger structural problem like algorithmic labor exploitation, or the growing mental health crisis.

Those pieces often cover sensitive topics in China, like feminism and LGBTQ+ rights. How do you approach your subjects in a way that balances their safety, and yours, with telling a compelling story?

To be honest, everything is sensitive today. But in the grand scheme of things, the topics that I cover—like feminism and LGBTQ+ rights—are relatively low on the list of sore points, and not explicitly confrontational. That being said, I understand the stakes and risks involved for anyone to write or speak up in this particular climate. So, I’ve learned to read the shifting winds as much as possible. It’s a dance; you learn to be nimble.

In an article for WIRED you wrote about Chen Qiufan and science fiction in China. Do you see any parallels between the work of science-fiction writers and your own?

Absolutely. We are both attempting to write and live truthfully, creatively, and with integrity in the same environment, under similar constraints. Because of this, we are fascinated by similar subjects: most notably, the digital divide, the effects of automation, and a growing turn towards the spiritual.

The key difference between their work and mine is that science-fiction writers are able to shroud themselves under the ambiguity of genre—writing speculative fiction allows for multiple interpretations. As a nonfiction writer, I have to be more straightforward and direct in my writing.

While your work centers on the internet and lives lived online, do you have any favorite offline activities?

Like everyone during the pandemic, I’ve begun to enjoy activities that remind me that I am an actual physical body—not just a brain and fingers tapping away at a keyboard. In the last couple of years, I’ve fallen in love with rock climbing—both at the bouldering gym but also outdoors.

Climbing is problem-solving, but with your body. You have to work out routes with a partner. To get anywhere on real rock, you have to learn how to belay and be belayed. It demands such an interesting combination of flexibility, creativity, resilience, grace, trust, and collaboration.

Subscribe to The Thread monthly newsletter to get the latest in policy, equity, and culture in your inbox, and curated updates from New America you don't want to miss.